Raising the While Flag on 604 Project

**Seadweller** · March 1st, 2010, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Panomaniac

That's great. Will be interesting to find out how the crossover works out.

Just a general note: I advise against the small 15W L-Pads such as these found at Parts Express. PE L-PAD
They are poorly made. I've had bad luck with any I've used.

Get the 50 watt version. You don't need it for the power, but they are much better constructed.

Thanks for the advice on the L-Pad's...I'll report back in a couple of weeks, as I've got two straight weeks of business travel ahead of me...

**Naimare** · March 25th, 2010, 07:05 AM

:waver:Seadweller,

Any progress with the new crossover?

Regards/Naimare

**Seadweller** · March 25th, 2010, 04:49 PM

Well, I have the crossovers, and they're built to Don's usual standards, meaning they're works of art!

It'll take a couple of weeks before I can regroup and get everything hooked up for a meaningful test...Business travel is killing me!

**Naimare** · April 15th, 2010, 04:09 AM

:waver: Seadweller

Would be interesting to hear if you had time to compare?

Regards/Naimare

**fmena** · August 24th, 2010, 11:05 PM

Any update? I have been reading with interest your trials and was wondering if anything developed since April. I hope things have turned out well with all of the work you have put in.

Cheers
Frank M

**Panomaniac** · August 25th, 2010, 11:25 AM

Thanks for the bump, Frank. Yeah, what's the progress?

**dooey263** · August 26th, 2010, 08:37 AM

I didn't have time to read all the posts in this discussion, so this answer may have already have been stated....

I have owned and listened to many tube amplifiers, and basically I have surmised that the bass sucks in most of them. It's the #1 problem I have by far in getting my systems to sound "good to me". I am currently running 604-8K's in 620 cabs, in one system, and 515B's in 828 cabs in another... the bass should be great in either, not earthshakingly low, but nice punchy midbass... Which is what I want. But unfortunately, about 75% or better of the tube amps I have tried fail miserably. Interestingly enough, the current incarnation of power for the 604-8k's (without mentioning brands) uses wee little el84's run in triode,class A,around 2 watts output, with the preamp using 6dj8 running full out in class A all the time. When I plugged this combo in, it was like I added a subwoofer!

So maybe it's not so much the speakers, but more of an Amp- Preamp problem......

Hope this helps.... Scott

**drummerwill** · August 26th, 2010, 10:41 AM

Hi Dooey

As a lover of tube amps and a DIY builder for a few years now, I can understand your disapointment in what your Altecs should be doing.

I can say there is hope... New technuques in Class A SET and PP powersupply design is
on the verge of bringing that sound you want to your Altec systems without use of subs.
( OK along with a little EQ'ing for my taste).

But the fact remains, SET amps can be designed to be full bodied and full range, with dynamics and pace to satisfy the most demanding of listeners. The secret lies in the Simple signal curcuit design and a Superior power supply design all done with quality parts...

I'm there now , a 2 stage 2A3 Triode directly coupled 3 watt amplifier, that can take a 604 or 828 system and drive it to make it bounce, twist, turn, inside out , upside-down or any other trick music can do, and do it with the smoothnest and grace the music deserves.

Today ...this sound is possible you need only seek out the information.

Have fun!
Willie

**gearfreak** · August 26th, 2010, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by dooey263

When I plugged this combo in, it was like I added a subwoofer!

Not by any means to speak for the man himself of course, but you may look up GM's posts, regarding (paraphrasing) "...period correct high output impedance..." amps. It may provide some insight, per the B's in 828 cabs.

Advance search for author GM and string 'output impedance' should do the trick.

- may not apply to your newer 604's, but may...
- does not explain the 75%/25% breakdown per se.

Sooner than later I hope to rewire my Almarro to run in SET and see... there's a decware on auction locally, but it's already TRFMB.

**SOOTSHE** · August 26th, 2010, 06:15 PM

I've just spent some time reading the whole 16 pages of this thread & honestly I can't believe what is happening here.
You don't really expect high end, detailed, classic speakers to sound correctly by connecting them to 20 yo Cd players & non descript electronics.

You need to go back to basics here. Double check all your cabinet joints (I seal all the joints in my cabinets with a bead of silicone, regardless of who made them). Your cabinets appear to be very well made & I can't imagine they are contributing to the problems you are having, although I am a little dubious of the downward firing port.

It doesn't matter what your previous speakers sounded like with your current electronics, these Altecs will sound totally different with them.

Beg, borrow or steal some decent electronics, cables & source & you could end up saving yourself a whole lot of heartache.....not that you haven't gone through that already.

And whoever told you that your 20yo Cd player can't affect the sound....don't take any more advice from them.

Sorry to be so blatantly harsh here, but it really riles me that due to others advice you've been through this escapade & nearly sold a classic pair of speakers.
Please, please give them a fair chance to perform.
Remember....garbage in...garbage out.

Good luck.